Episode 76: The Correct Way to Look for a New Job

Welcome to another edition of “Around with Randall,” your weekly podcast making your non-profit more effective for your community, and here is your host, the CEO and Founder of Hallett Philanthropy, Randall Hallett.

Thank you again for joining me, Randall, right here on “Around with Randall.” Today's conversation, discussion, is actually maybe out of sequence in terms of the podcast in all the episodes but is an additional one, or an additive, as it pertains to the work that was done about the great resignation. In the employment survey that was published in January in the Journal for the Association for Healthcare Philanthropy this came about because of an article that I was startled by, and it's based on some new research and is directly related to this concept of jobs and about what's happening and how people are leaving, what they're leaving for. So let me start with what the article was which, then will frame the rest of our 15 or 17 minutes together.

 Out of the Chronicle Philanthropy written by Daniella Genovese, titled “Great Resignation Over 70 Percent of Workers Regret Quitting their Jobs,” and then a sub headline, “Eighty Percent of Millennials and Generation Z Workers Say it's Okay to Leave a New Job Within Six Months.” Startling. Particularly when 70 percent say they've changed, of the, in the ones that have changed jobs at 70 percent are saying “I regret it.” And that caused me to realize that I never got into the details of some of the steps that one might go through in making a decision to leave a job.

On the interview process, I talked about, a lot, about what was happening in terms of why people were leaving jobs, whether it was salary, or trust, or home life balance, or being able to work remotely, all kinds of things. But what I failed to talk about was what should people do if they're looking to leave, what should they be thinking about, and I feel kind of dumb. So we'll do it here, a little late, but better late than never.

So two great things to keep in mind. Number one is, and I think I mentioned this in one of the podcasts, that I really believe what Erma Bombeck, who was a commentator in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, she wrote a book and I’m not sure the book is exactly pertaining to this, but the title is great: “The Grass isn't Always Greener on the Other Side of the Septic Tank.” Sometimes jobs, what we perceive as leaving, may not actually be better than what we're currently doing. That doesn't mean you shouldn't leave. But the process you go through should be pretty important because you're making a really big decision, and the term that I use for this is leap of faith that you are willing to go from what's known into something that's a little bit unknown. But the real challenge is, how do I lessen those unknown issues, those unrealized challenges, and I have three steps that I have taken in my own career when I have moved. 

I’ll use a couple of examples throughout that really can help you make sure you're doing the right thing for you. This is not about me. It's not about anyone else. It’s, but the process is great at getting you to ask yourself some questions. So let me highlight the big three and then we'll kind of break them down. The first is, what's going on at home? Number two, what do you want professionally? And number three the dollars versus everything else. s

So let's start with home. I always believe that it's most important to be at home talking about, thinking about, and working with your home environment when you make these kind of decisions. And new jobs bring on new stresses, bring on new challenges, bring on new dynamics in terms of time and responsibility. And I always encourage people to start at home. That may mean at home with a significant other, or a spouse, a husband, or a wife. It may mean if you're living in a small group, maybe you're single, does that affect the dynamic of the environment you live in, so let's get into maybe some of the specifics. And I’d be remiss one, before, thing, before, I talk about the specifics also how does it affect children, if you have them. Yeah, they're used to routines as well, so you don't want to forget that. And I probably should have mentioned that in the group, 30 seconds earlier, the first is kind of just the logistics is is this new opportunity that might be in front of you or that you are seeking, causing, or might cause a move or increase travel time. In Omaha, Nebraska where I live that's in where I live in the middle of town it, I’m not sure it's a big deal if you have to go someplace every day for a job. But if you're in Los Angeles or New York or a larger community and that job happens to be further across town, it may not require you to move physically but that's going to take more drive time, which takes away from other normalized activities, normalized in terms of what you're used to. 

If you're looking at greater opportunity in terms of huge jumps that could facilitate a move to a completely new community, we'll give you an example .I have a colleague and a former client, someone that I have a great deal of respect that moved from one part of the country to the other, and I’ll just say the first part of the country was very warm and this part of the country is very cold, so there was the issue involving just the basics of, “oh my gosh I’ve never lived somewhere where it's this cold,” and they moved right in the middle of winter. This individual had a significant other, spouse, what are they going to do for a job? I think about my life as well. So when I was, maybe 20 years ago, maybe closer to 17, 16 years ago was in Minnesota working for a great place that I just loved, St. Thomas academy, I got this phone call from a family friend about going to the Nebraska Medical Center, the academic medical center in Omaha, and that would require a move. But in my case, it required kind of two parts to move. Number one a move from Minnesota to Omaha and for my wife, who's from Louisiana. The answer was how quickly can we get warmer. But Omaha's also my home, as many of you know, and my wife's not from here, so was she gonna be okay moving into a community where obviously my family has ties, it has connections? 

The first part is figuring out, logistically, what does that mean? Then there's the idea of hours. Do your hours change? Do you have a job that gives you great flexibility that when a child has a teacher-parent conference you're able to get out and go, or a doctor's appointment, versus maybe some places that are a little more restrictive in that and they track all of that? Then there's the issue of just in the crazy covid hopefully post-covid world, remote working versus not remote working and what is it that they require versus what you have now. And remember, working remotely isn't better for everybody. I’m someone who actually wants to go to an office. I want to get out of my house because I work more effectively, efficiently, and better in an office environment. So it's not to say one's better than the other. The question is what's better for you. So I always start at home. What does this mean for my family, for my family life, the things that are most important to me inside that apartment, or house, or home? And what does it mean for moving and driving in my logistics? What does it mean for the hours that I’m going to be required to work, and by the way do they respect the weekend or are you exempt and you've got to work, you know, all the time and be available? And then where is that work daily or weekly? Is that in an office, at home, combination? All things that are kind of the first steps because it's about what's going on inside the the affected lives of the people that you live with.

The second - so that was home - the second is about the professional. And this is about where you want to be someday. This is about professional growth. Does this job provide you an opportunity to have more chances to do new things, or to increase your productivity, or to learn something new? And it's really important here and I’ll talk about this in the very end about what the company's responsibility is, but to ask questions about, “well here's the job description, what is it you want me to physically do every day?” I can't tell you how often I’ve been in scenarios and situations where a job description says one thing but the person is doing something else because, in particular ,a larger organization doesn't want to change the job descriptions so basically the organization will post the job with this description but then somebody in an office, a leader, a manager, a supervisor ,president whoever is running the office that particular office is, well here are all the other things we need you to do. And you weren't even aware of them. So part of this is understanding not only what it is you want in a job, but what it is they're actually offering in terms of those job responsibilities and duties. The second thing is, is there growth that you want in this new job, meaning not only this job but other opportunities. Can you find new things to learn in this new job, not only in the first six months or a year, but in two years, three years, five years, possibly?

The third subpart of the professional aspect of this is a really deep dive into your boss. So if you go back probably, if this is episode maybe 76 you have to go back to about episode 20, ballpark, for the podcast here you can listen to managing up and what you'll hear in that 15 to 17 minute podcast is that managing up is about realizing your boss has so much control of your life. And so your ability to evaluate your boss as you go through the process is critically important. It always kind of scared me. If I don't have almost unfettered access during the interview process to the person i'm physically going to be reporting to, I’ve seen too often where maybe the head of the office, development office, or president, foundation is managing a lot of the interview steps but your manager is someone below that and you don't have as much interaction with them, or just the inverse. You're reporting to maybe somebody higher up but there's an HR department that’s, you don't have as much interaction with the person. I understand why they do that because they're trying to be efficient and effective but at the end of the day, once you accept the job and you show up day one the HR office or the people that were in between you and your boss aren't going to be there anymore, so having very hard and and truly difficult conversations and those conversations are based upon what's best for you because what's best for you if it's done well can also be best for the organizations looking for someone like you. Asking questions like, in difficult situations, how do you react, what are your expectations at seven o'clock when i'm eating dinner, how do you view this particular situation, talking to other people who report to that person, how do they react is, are they reasonable, are they collaborative, do they communicate are they authentic in their leadership, do they actually do what they're asking us to do, servant leadership? You need to probe that issue about who your boss is, what their mannerisms are, what they do, how they do it, things of that nature to ensure that you understand what you're walking into.

Lastly, the environment. So this is the fourth part of professionalism with professional growth. And opportunity is the environment as a whole. Is the office a good place to work? Are the people good? Do they communicate? Is there a lot of challenges and issues? Do you catch wind of problems and conflict? If you don't want those things then that could be something that could be a real detriment to you wanting to take this job or to stay. So the second of the big three is professionalism. Professional growth what is the job - say it is what actually is. It. Is there growth opportunity in that job? Who is your boss? Who is the management team? What do they really act like on a daily basis? And lastly, what's the environment? Is it a good place to be on a daily basis? 

The third, which usually is something everybody starts with, is what's the money? And this is the essence of a leap of faith. Sometimes a leap of faith is I’m going to go take a job that could be much more profitable in my own life and take the risk of mitigating the environment, the growth, the the boss, because I can make so much more money. And, in fact, I just had a colleague who went through this here in omaha. She left the nonprofit world to go into the for-profit world, going into a privately held company that probably was going to have an IPO coming up soon. There was a chance to get a lot of money out of that IPO because they could pay her in stock as a part of her compensation package, that's a leap of faith. And knowing her in her situation, she's willing to put up with a little bit more crap because she knows the benefit in a three to five year window is going to be tremendous in terms of monetary compensation. Life-changing, well that's a balancing act. There's no good or bad. You might be paid more but are you being asked to put up with more. And there's again no right or wrong answer. The question is what you're willing to do, what you're willing to put up with, and also deal with on a daily basis. So consider all of those things as you go in terms of that monetary compensation versus all the things that you have to do on a daily basis, being away from your family, working, your boss, the idea of driving, the office environment, going to an office, working from home.

The three big leaps of faith, home, professional, and money versus everything else. A balancing act if you're a company, you're a leader, and you're trying to reduce turnover which, by the way I can't imagine a greater nightmare scenario. Think about this. This is a quote from the article, from one of the, one of the the CEOs of a job-seeking, job-finding consulting group. I want to quote it. It used to be that if you started a new job and you didn't like it you needed to stay for at least one or two years to avoid a black mark on your resume. But we have seen this really interesting shift in perception and what she's talking about is that 80 percent of millennials and generation z workers say it's okay to leave your job within six months if you don't like it, if it's not as advertised. The cost from the corporate side in turnover is a killer. So if you're looking for job applicants and finding people to fill roles as the company, as the organization, you need to be honest as to what the job is versus what the job description says it is. Is it accurate or are there other things we need people to do?

Number two you need to be more open with detail. If you have a great environment let candidates into that environment to see that. If you're a good boss explain what you're, if you think you're a good boss explain how you create accountability, explain how you build out professionalism and opportunities. Demonstrate that in some way, shape, or form. And lastly, get them inside the office environment more. It's more open. You're showing, you don't have anything to hide, and by the way you'll notice those things that i'm recommending for an organization or a company or a leader looking to fill a spot, fit into those leaps of faith that employees or potential employees, job candidates should be looking for. At the end of the day, job hopping's bad for both sides. It's really a problem for the worker because it sends a signal that they're not willing to keep and stay and work hard for long periods of time, which can be a real detriment for people looking to hire. But it's just as important on the employer, organization, company side because it's costly to turn people over and as a result openness is critically important.

Thanks again for thinking of Hallett Philanthropy and “Around with Randall.” As you listen to this podcast, if you're interested in more information about the firm check out hallettphilanthropy.com. Or if you'd like to send me an email, comment on this podcast, make a suggestion on one that's podcast@hallettphilanthropy.com and there's blogs up. I just posted a couple new ones 90 second reads right off the website at hallettphilanthropy.com, easy to check. And if you would do me a favor rate this podcast, share it with a friend or two. Maybe there's some things here that could be helpful to someone else as well as yourself. 

We work in the nonprofit world in philanthropy in a great profession and I hope you feel like you're making a difference for your nonprofit your community. Don't forget my favorite saying, some people make things happen, some people watch things happen, then there are those who wondered what happened. And what we do is making things happen, being part of organizations who want to do something for their community, for the people of their community, and for mostly for the people who are wondering what happened, and there's no better way to invest your professional life than helping others and that's the essence of philanthropy. It doesn't mean money, means love of mankind. I’ll look forward to seeing you right back here on “Around with Randall” next time, and don't forget make it a great day.